In YOUth We Trust

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:00:00]:
I understand that in many parts of the world, you know, having a degree is still extremely important, and I expect that will remain, for the for the foreseeable future. But, again, it's the it's the way how you play with the fringes of these developments that I think will make life extremely interesting for for people.

Intro [00:00:23]:
Cast your mind back to when you were younger.

Intro [00:00:26]:
you want to change the world? What skills and opportunities do you wish you had to succeed? And now fast forward to today, do you believe young people have these skills those and opportunities in youth we trust sit down with successful entrepreneurs, business leaders, educators, and others from around the world. We spotlight how individuals and organizations are shaping a better world directly or indirectly for the coming generations through Through their focus on sustainability, equity, education, and more to empower young people to create the future they deserve. And now in youth we trust.

Prashant Raizada [00:01:02]:
In today's episode of In Youth We Trust, I talked to doctor Christiana Muack, someone who thrives out of her comfort zone. An education economist by training, she spent over a decade in the Middle East on topics of youth development, higher education, and also sustainability, But also as an award winning film producer and organizer of major music concerts, a key passion of hers, Christiana is a big thinker Worth listening to. Hi, Kristin. It's so lovely to have you on the podcast in youth we trust.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:01:36]:
It's my pleasure, Prashant. It's great to be here.

Prashant Raizada [00:01:39]:
In 7 different countries, you've actually been involved in each of these issues, Actually, at a significant level of depth. So welcome again. And, let's dive straight into it. So as you know, Christian, Loomi is about getting young people involved in solving the greatest problems that, either businesses or society is facing. But through that building their skills for their own future. Now We do that through quests. Right? So if I take you back to your younger self, what is that Quest that you would have loved to be on.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:02:29]:
Interesting. I mean, I would say I'm still on a quest.

Prashant Raizada [00:02:35]:
Well, aren't we all? But, you know, Was there an issue in particular that, you know, bothered you or were you very passionate about as youth?

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:02:50]:
I think I have always been looking at things maybe a little bit differently, more systemically than, than than other people around me. And so I think from the From the time I was a teenager, I I think I was always thinking in terms of, you know, optionalities and potent potentialities. And I think to this day, I'm I'm, I'm someone who always goes into, you know, multiple different directions at once, trying to, you know, figure out, not only what they are about, but also what connects them. And, I would say even as, even as a young person, again, today, I would call that education, skill building, mindset building, and so on. But, you know, to be honest, I don't think that, 30 years ago, I had that Vocabulary. I I called it, very often, you know, influencing or messing with people's lives, but in a productive way.

Prashant Raizada [00:04:02]:
Right. Right. Give me an example of What you were doing?

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:04:09]:
So, one thing I, I I did during my teenage years was, some youth work, during vacation, you know, but always with Network component. You know, I was I spent a summer in France preparing a music festival with a very international group of people. And, you know, all my friends at Germany said, are you crazy? Like, you know, this is actual work. Why are you doing this in the summer? But I really I I just, I enjoyed it a lot. It was a group of for other youth from across Europe. Some of them quite a bit older than me. And, you know, just to to use opportunities like that to gain perspective, to then bring that back into my into my life. And then, You know, after after that summer, a lot of people told me, oh, you've changed.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:05:08]:
I'm like, yeah. But, isn't that interesting?

Prashant Raizada [00:05:13]:
Yeah. I mean, it's basically real world, involvement in projects, you know, kind of, taking the initiative to do that, but not being shy of, diving deep into something where you were accountable. How did you feel like When you were involved in in the music festival as a woman or or as as a young person In general.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:05:41]:
I mean, so I think what what this has taught me and what it made me feel at that point in time was that, You know, there are many different ways to to live a life and to live a an an interesting and a successful life. So, you know, I come up from a family, of of civil servants. My dad is a teacher. My grandpa was a teacher. My other grandpa was a police ma'am. So, you know, it's a very settled, middle of the roads, German life. But at the same time, you know, there are always these, interesting things at the edges that, that are worth exploring. And, you know, for example, my my family, wasn't wealthy, So, you know, I couldn't do what I may have wanted to do, which is spend a year, studying abroad in high school, going to US, to UK or somewhere else.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:06:46]:
But then, like, working in in France and working in youth camps and so on. So, You know, it's a it's a question of finding these challenging, finding these experiences, and then doing something with them. And I found that very productive. I mean, I I remember when I was in my final year in high school, I, started applying, to, universities, but also to vocational training. And all my teachers told me, you're crazy. You're very good students. Of course, you're gonna go to university. But I really wanted to to try out and see, you know, how is it to have a, an employment interview? How is it to, you know, run some tests that are, you know, not high school level, but actual actually professional level, for people who would go out and, learn a trade or a profession, at age 18.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:07:48]:
And, you know, ultimately, then I went back to where knew I would probably always end up, which was university. But I've always felt I had made some experiences there that were extremely, extremely helpful. And to be open to that, I think is is a is a strength, but it's also something that, You know, depending on your environment, you have a bit of explaining to do.

Prashant Raizada [00:08:17]:
Yeah. I mean, tell me a little bit about this. You've said it twice that either your friends or the people around you, said you were crazy. So why is it that they found the whole notion of you kinda going out and doing vocational training, Taking responsibility in a music festival, crazy.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:08:43]:
I think, You know, if you're people people, look at you and they, It gets a an impression of, you know, what you're about, usually pretty quickly. And, they might be right. They might be wrong. But to be honest, I mean, until today, I would say the The guiding theme in my life that is that, I look at, different options of how to do things. And, you know, I think I've become a bit struct more structured around that in terms of, you know, looking at Who are good people to work with? Who are good what are good topics to work on? Where do I want to work? And so on and so on. You know, even If you then go exact back and do exactly what everyone predicted you would do from the start, it gives you a bit of, of brats of, you know, wingspan, of of depth, and ultimately, a lot of resilience to maybe then also deal with with situations that, where things don't go exactly your way.

Prashant Raizada [00:10:02]:
Look. There are multiple interesting points that you've raised. Let me pick up on 2 of them. The first is in without actually Realizing what structures would some of your experiences fall into, you were picking up one very Crucial skill, and that was people skills. Right? Understanding who are the people that you can work with, What how to work with different people because you are in unfamiliar settings. Yes. Right? That was one point that I picked up, Which actually is a huge skill to have. The second was resilience.

Prashant Raizada [00:10:40]:
And I'm this is a word that is used so often these days Possibly because a large part of the next coming generation Doesn't really have ways and means to acquire it.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:10:56]:
Yes. I

Prashant Raizada [00:10:56]:
mean, there's that there's one half, one part which is like that. And then there's the other which actually is only building resilience because they are living their lives in such difficult circumstances. So do you think like, let's look at the education system today. Do you think that, you know, young people have the opportunity to develop that wingspan?

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:11:19]:
Mhmm.

Prashant Raizada [00:11:21]:
It's hard. Or or is it not? Maybe I'm biased.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:11:26]:
It's hard, but I would say compared to when when I was a young person, there are many more opportunities today. So a a lot of things that, you know, back then were maybe less usual have become mainstream today, from, you know, having getting practical work experience, starting your own startup while you're in university or even in high role. You know, getting exposure to, as you mentioned earlier, different people skills. Right? School counselors, career coaches, all of these kinds of things. So there's a lot more offering, there today. I think what's important is that unless you come from a background that already values all of these interventions if you want. You find someone who lowers the hurdle for you and maybe takes you by the hand and make sure that you get to experience this. Now whether you then like it, whether you make it part of your toolbox, whether you are, aiming to get to a point where you can actually teach this to others, That's a different question.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:12:50]:
Right? But I think that's something very important that you create an environment that invites this experimentation and goes away a little bit from the you know, this is a it's a straight path. And, this is also where I think that the way how we communicate, our successes, our life stories, on social Lumi, it's not helping. Right? Because and it's changing a little bit. It depends on, on on on Where you're present, I'm I'm quite frequently on LinkedIn. And I do appreciate that there are a lot of People now who are chained who are telling stories that are not about their successes, but also about their learning experiences, their struggles.

Prashant Raizada [00:13:42]:
That is so true. So I think it you know, again, there are there are layers to what you're on what you're saying. I think first of all, there are more opportunities for people. That's for sure. But at the same time, I think there is, these young people as one of our other guests, Was also pointing to, they can learn a lot from the trajectories that people like you and I and many others have had, you know. Doesn't matter, you know, who you are and what you're doing. The journey matters. And I think what it actually allows, these young people to do is to Understand that by deviating or by taking some risks, getting some, You know, slightly different experiences, even if it against goes against the common wisdom at that time can actually be really beneficial, in the future because you have a better world view.

Prashant Raizada [00:14:39]:
You have a better network. You have better skills. But at the same time, You know, let's say you were growing up in the world around you today. Do you think that people would still call you craze you you don't call you crazy, or would it be different today?

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:15:01]:
Probably still. But maybe in a in a different way. Right? I think today there are There are different ways of making the world your own. But it's much more, you know, globally integrated. The standards on a lot of things have become much higher. You know, I mean, I remember, graduating high school, doing my final paper, I think that was the first time I actually wrote something, longer than an email on a computer. So, you know, it's, it's it's interesting, how some of these things change, let's say at the, at the user level. But I think at the fundamental level, some of these, some of these topics around, experiences around, resilience, around, you know, trying out different selves, are still the same today.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:16:05]:
And, you know, if if anything, Opportunities for most people are more accessible, through through the Internet, through international travel, through all kinds of, you know, if you just look at the, the, The increase in English proficiency that comes from Network. I mean, that is a side effect of a global media company that no one would have, would have predicted. But it's, it's useful, and it works, and it's something that, you know, combines enjoyment with, with learning, clearly, because English scores are getting better in in many, many countries for no other predictable reason.

Prashant Raizada [00:17:03]:
So, so let's look at this, you know, I I wanna stay focused on this one thing around school, high school, university job. You know, what I find, Christian, is this is Likely to change, but it's not something that's going to change immediately. But once it does, It probably will be an irreversible change. So how you know, when I look at the parents, when I look at majority of the young people, Everybody is still thinking I'll be in school, then I will go to university, then I'll get a job. How do you see this changing? And do you think it's the still the trajectory or there are other options?

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:17:49]:
I think there are already a lot of other options. You know, in a lot of, countries in the western world, the majority of university students are already nontraditional students, which what does that mean? They're not between 18 to 22. They're older. They are already they already have a career, so they might be studying part time. They might have family and study part time. They might look for hybrid or online options. So all of this already exists. I think, and that's just one example.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:18:22]:
Right? So I think what the the education system in many places Prashant is that it's still 1980. And it's clearly not. And a lot of people are already, consuming these new options for for getting education, for getting upskilled. You know, I had a discussion with a friend the other day. Peter Thiel, the the venture capitalist from from Silicon Valley, has this Famous challenge where he gives young people $100,000, to not go to university. And everyone said, oh my god, this is So crazy is going to ruin their future. So in in this case, young people who are very entrepreneurial. Very high rate of, applications, and then they can pick the top 1%.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:19:27]:
And then they do something interesting. Right? They have a global experience. They have open experience with a lot of, Work, during during that, during their studies, then Yeah. You know, a traditional university where you sit in a big lecture hall. And so I think there is a lot of variety already out there. The the old system is still fighting back, you you know, if you're believing, you know, change theory and, and, Thomas Kuhn and the The the the structure of of, of scientific revolutions and so on. But, you know, you see just from the amount of new, options out there, that there's clearly something changing. And by the way, COVID helped a lot.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:20:20]:
Online education is much more accepted and acceptable, than before. And, not only that, but also, of of course, the quality has increased. The technological opportunities have increased. And so, You know, I think it's much easier to get a better education today, but it's also much easier to get Introduce to all kinds of tools, to make sense of the world, in in in a way that maybe previously you couldn't do. That was a that was a, you know, an opportunity for the 0.1% who were really, really nerdy coders before. And today, you know, a high schooler can build a mobile app, which is I think pretty cool without having the, the big technological background.

Prashant Raizada [00:21:16]:
Oh, 100%. I mean, we've seen in the last 3 years alone, the number of young people who have, used these low and no code tools to to develop genuinely high impact prototypes, it really is democratizing, technical innovation at the ground level. So Given that the there is much more optionality. Given that the boundaries between school and a traditional university or Whether you do that or you do something else is becoming starting to become a little blurry. If I think about I grew up in India and, you know, large part of the population still is thinking, how do I educate my child? But they are thinking traditionally. They're thinking, You know, my child should go to a school and then, you know, I hope he or she goes to university. I draw parallels between, you know, At some point, everybody was hoping that, oh, I have a telephone in my house, a landline until the mobile phones came along. Yeah.

Prashant Raizada [00:22:17]:
Right? How can we use this change to leapfrog skill development equitably?

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:22:24]:
Yeah. I think I'd come back to something I said earlier, which is you need to create opportunities to be exposed, to catch the bug, to, normalize Non traditional ways of, learning and developing.

Prashant Raizada [00:22:44]:
Mhmm.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:22:44]:
And that doesn't mean, That doesn't mean you don't go to university anymore. But that means that you are taking a lot more personal agency to develop your career path. Right? So I'm I have a I have a friend here in Berlin who with a tax adviser. But, he just opened up, his, his new company. And he's like, Christiane, for the next 3 months, I'm not taking any new clients for the next 3 months and building my tech stack. I was like, wow, that's really cool. So you have a bunch of tools out there that are, you know, not books and legal texts and so on, but things that you actually think are going to help you Do a better job, serve your clients better. And I know you're not necessarily a tech person, but you are building this job into something that you'll enjoy doing.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:23:45]:
Right? And you can you can make the same argument for people who go into accounting or into finance and so on, which, you know, in in many cases, you can do them in a very traditional way. But you can do also do them in a much more creative way, in a more tech enabled way. And I think this is something that those are stories that need to be told more so that, then, the parents, the community understand that, you know, Someone can learn how to, how to program no code, by just watching a few YouTube videos And then starts to make money or benefit their community in another way or create more connectivity, or better educate the next generation. That is also worth something. I understand that in many parts of the world, you know, having a degree is still extremely important, and I expect that will remain, for the for the foreseeable future. But, again, it's the it's The way how you play with the fringes of these developments, that I think will make life extremely interesting for for people.

Intro [00:25:07]:
This episode is brought to you by Lumi dot network. We're on a mission to help the next generation get ready to take on the world. Our AI augmented platform runs quests that help 10 to 25 year olds shape their future by developing AI, entrepreneurship, Entrepreneurship and design thinking skills to solve the most pressing business and social issues. If you or your organization wants to Positively impact the next generation, we'd love to talk to you. To learn more, visit Lumi Network.

Prashant Raizada [00:25:37]:
So let's move into the pres present. You know, you have you are someone who has done work on Youth empowerment, you worked on skill development, you worked in tech, you you worked on sustainability issues. You You worked on, women's empowerment as well. Talk to me about The various things, that you're doing that would be interesting to our listeners, in any of these areas.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:26:10]:
So I have a I have a few hats on. I started my career as, in academia, which, you know, still informs a lot of what I do. This was heavily focused on economics as well as, education. So I have a lot of background in in human capital development, in the broadest sense. So I still do a lot of work in, in education. I'm advising a, a foundation in Saudi Arabia on, on use development, including, let's say, building tech skills. Right? So for example, during COVID, we had an initiative, that was fully online to give basic tech skills to about, 120,000 young Saudis. And, it was very engaging.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:27:09]:
It was an offering that came, you know, at the right time, during COVID. And, also very empowering because, we were able to reach students that, you know, would Usually not come to one of the big big cities to participate in some of our programs. So that for me is a is a very important thing, to contribute to US development. I sit on the board of the university in the United Arab Emirates. But Over the last years, I've also gotten involved a lot in, let's say, start up communities of different sorts, both as as an entrepreneur myself, as an angel investor, but also just as a mentor to a lot of, mostly younger entrepreneurs. And I really, really like to, you know, get into these, sectors, Try to understand what they're about and, you know, give them give them my perspective, my views from, you know, having having been in in the same and in other industries for for a while. And at the same time, I would have to say because In the over the last decade or so, I've I've done a lot of work, you know, as a self employed person, as a freelancer. I've always heavily invested in myself.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:28:36]:
Both, you know, at some point. And about 5 years ago, I decided I want to become an executive coach. I've done a little so I've done that. It's not my main profession, but it's a very useful tool for the toolbox. I've done a lot of training and development, mentoring as well, but also more technical skills. So this year, I've spent a few weeks, doing courses, on, you know, how to become a better angel investor or how to become a better, fund manager. So these things I find really, really interesting. And then, you know, in some ways, they just come together in a in a beautiful way, and, you know, lead to a new project or to a new connection or to a speaking opportunity or an advisory opportunity.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:29:29]:
So after doing them for 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, they usually find a way to seamlessly integrate into into what I would con consider as my day job.

Prashant Raizada [00:29:41]:
Yeah. It's just entrepreneurial at At various different levels. Right? So you're constantly exploring new avenues. You know, you build enough credibility and skills so that you could you know, things started to converge at some point. I understand that. I mean, I've done sim slightly similar things, but I find that, you know, when I'm building this venture, Loomi, just about everything that I've done in my life, actually, as a student onwards is now becoming relevant. Every single learning is coming into play. Every single person I got to know is is, has a role to play in this.

Prashant Raizada [00:30:18]:
And and that gives me a lot of joy. Right? Why did you end up choosing the Middle East, as as a region where you wanted to get more involved? You know, for someone from Germany, that feels unusual.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:30:33]:
You know, beautiful randomness and serendipity. I I had an opportunity as a as a management consultant. Back then, I was with Boston Consulting Group. They offered a 1 year exchange program to Dubai where they had opened a new office. That was right after the financial crisis of 2007, 2008, you know, doing anything in in the German economy felt a little bit depressive. Yeah. And, so, yeah, I spent a year in Dubai and kind of never left the region again. And I would Say, I'm, I've been, very, you know, lucky to See part of the development of this region, living living in the Emirates, living in in Qatar, Working a lot in Saudi about for the last 6, 7 years.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:31:32]:
And, you know, seeing countries and societies transition very, very quickly, is very interesting, but then also Network wise very fulfilling because what is, what is important for the region is that, and shared by basically all the countries is, that they have a young share of, young citizens who, want to be, want to have opportunities, You need to be educated well and trained well to, be able to capture these opportunities. And, let's say, will it run the countries, at a much younger age than, we noticed from Europe. And in the Middle East, you have a lot of very young leadership who are very relatable and, who, who, you know, by and large, Put a lot of emphasis on building, sustainable futures, when it comes to, you know, education and, and and career paths.

Prashant Raizada [00:32:44]:
So, I'm conscious of the time, and, You know, I want to now jump into the future. Now you you said that building sustainable future. So I look at the rise of Artificial intelligence. And at the same time, big global problems like, climate change. Yeah. To name a name just 1. How do you see the intersection of these 2 in terms of Exposing young people to both of these issues fairly and early.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:33:17]:
I would come back to to the topic of agency. So, You know, I think for many many years, people You just say, oh, we need more people who can code. And you need we know we we need more people who are, you know, on the engineering side of the IT revolution, and so on and so on. And it turns out now in the last 5 years, coming back to no code and things like this, yes, you need some people who can quote really well, but you also need a lot of people who can problem solve really well. And then find a way how to ask good questions and then, you know, plug the right no code modules together to build an an app or or or a software and so on. And I think the same for me applies, on the whole topic of AI and probably also on the topic of sustainability. So it's not the question of, you know, do I, understand in detail, how a large language model works. I think, you know, on a on a on a bunch of basics, we should understand what makes it work well.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:34:39]:
Right? So topics like, you know, garbage in, garbage out. It makes a difference of, whether my large language model has read the Library of Congress or, you know, to comic books, or, you know, something that is, that is politically charged, right, then I will get very different answers. So I think the the the point there is to, you know, be able to ask Good questions to understand this the limitations of of of systems like AI, But also, obviously, to use it to the maximum impact possible, to, you know, accelerate, The the personal development, the development of the organizations they are part of, improving their improving their lives. And I think that's, for me, that's also the the the connection to sustainability. You know, in in in a lot of places, sustainability is looked at as, something that, will lead to heavy regulation and to People being able to do less and people, being, forbidden to do certain things. Usually things that are fun. Right? Flying Right. Flying to far far away destinations, eating your favorite foods, and so on.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:36:15]:
But the point is, you know, how do you think of this in a, in a structured way? How do you create, personal agency? How do you accountability, and how again then, coming back to the community aspect of people around you who Make sure that you're, that you're, you know, living up to your potential, that you're really, able to make The change, with the tools that you have and to encourage you to do better, those are those are opportunities that I think today's youth will have, with all the new technologies that are coming up.

Prashant Raizada [00:37:00]:
That's so great. And and just to kind of, end our conversation, What is your wildest prediction about how AI might play out for our society?

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:37:17]:
I I don't think it's particularly wild, but, you know, I think the the the parts That, that I foresee happening is that The the integration of technology into our lives, will be so smooth and seamless, including at the at the biological and neurological level, that, it will be, in imperceptible that we're still using using AI. So that for me, I think in in a few years from now, you know, I I won't need this iPhone anymore. Right? It will be it will be it will be connected with me in some way that, you know, probably I can't I can't, imagine right now, but it will also help me do things much better. It will help me to, hopefully enjoy life more, to be productive or not productive when I choose to be. And I think it's a It's an amazing opportunity for, for Humans not to be ruled by AI, but to, cocreate and to augment, the lives they're leading, in a way that, you know, we probably can't even imagine today.

Prashant Raizada [00:39:04]:
That's so true. And I think to, you know, I would go back to end to the point you make that It's garbage in, garbage out. So artificial intelligence is feeding off how we treat it, how we work with it. And Therefore, if we can develop the skill in young people to ask good questions, to solve either their Very simple problems where, you know, problems in academics, problems in life, or just to have fun. I think that then They're training the models to be their companion, to to help them move ahead and to help society move ahead. But if you don't teach that skill, then I think what'll happen is that There's chance that AI talk takes over in a way that we probably don't like in the future. So it's been a pleasure, Christiana, to talk to you. You know, I think this conversation can go into multiple episodes.

Prashant Raizada [00:40:09]:
Knowing you a little bit, I think I might do that To bring out one specific aspect of that, you know, whether it's on the innovation side with young people, whether it's women's empowerment. But thank you so much for at least Bringing some of these experiences out sharing your life's journey and why it has been so beneficial to you to step out of your comfort zone And, and all the very best. Thank you.

Dr. Christiane Mueck [00:40:35]:
Thank you so much for having me.

Intro [00:40:44]:
Thanks for listening. If you found this conversation valuable, please leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you have a story or someone you know does, please recommend them to us by Email at hello@loomi.network. We'll see you next time on In Youth We Trust.